Yes, the Rev. Sheldon Sorge has seen his share of dwindling Presbyterian congregations shutting their doors in declining neighborhoods or communities. And just last week, he saw yet another congregation leave for a more conservative denomination.

But as the general minister of the Pittsburgh Presbytery travels around Allegheny County, Rev. Sorge says he sees plenty of vibrant Presbyterian congregations that seem to defy the bleak picture depicted by the denomination’s own numbers.

The Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) lost 6 percent of its membership in 2015, and that came after three consecutive years of 5 percent declines. Current membership is just under 1.6 million. The Pittsburgh Presbytery, still one of the nation’s largest, saw a 7 percent decline to 28,518 last year.

Several other presbyteries in Western Pennsylvania, a historic heartland of Presbyterianism dating back to early Scots-Irish settlement, also posted the latest in a succession of losses.

The Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) has seen 463 congregations nationwide depart for other denominations between 2012 and 2015, according to newly released statistics from the Louisville, Ky.-based denomination.

Virtually all left for smaller, more conservative denominations such as the Evangelical Presbyterian Church, which the historic Bellefield Presbyterian Church in Oakland joined last week after reaching a separation agreement with the Pittsburgh Presbytery.

Many departing congregations reacted to liberal theological and social trends in the past five years that included the approvals of ordaining and marrying openly gay members. And while the national population as a whole has become more liberal on such topics, not one congregation has joined the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.), and not only is membership down, but so are rates of baptisms and confirmations.

Other mainline churches have incurred similar chronic losses, including Episcopal, Lutheran and Methodist bodies.

So Rev. Sorge admits that it’s a tough sell to say these statistics don’t tell it all.

“Honestly, I don’t see decline in the way that the numbers would suggest,” he said. “I grieve the numbers, but I don’t think it’s the whole story.”

For example, he said many people participate in church but don't join formally, part of a larger trend in people choosing not to affiliate with fraternities and other social units.

“I’m more concerned about people being part of the mission than people being on the rolls,” he said.

Many are involved in church and social outreaches, Rev. Sorge said, and there is one uptick in the measure of Presbyterian commitment: Giving was up 6 percent despite the lower membership.

“The people who are with us are by and large very committed,” he said.

But the Rev. James Wellman, a Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) minister who has authored scholarly books and articles on trends in mainline denominations, said the numbers are as bad as they look.

“There’s a number of factors, starting with the fact that a slightly more liberal take on social issues tends to alienate anyone who’s more moderate or conservative on social issues,” said Rev. Wellman, a professor of American religion, culture and politics at the University of Washington in Seattle.

“They almost immediately will start to seek out other churches that reflect who they are.”

In an era when denominational identity matters less, that’s “not seen as a dramatic move,” he said.

And younger adults are significantly more secular than earlier generations were, which he sees in his students, many with “zero interest in religion.”

Younger adults are more liberal on social issues such as gay rights and women's equality, but that hasn’t proved to be a boon for liberal denominations.

“When they go to these churches, it’s just vanilla,” Rev. Wellman said. “There’s nothing new here. When the Presbyterian Church comes out for gay rights, they go, ‘What took them so long?’ It doesn’t show leadership. It just shows a reflection of the culture.”

And, he said, Presbyterians have relatively little evangelistic zeal in seeking to bring others into their church, or even to retain their own children.

Rev. Wellman said he sympathizes with his church’s liberal stances but that it often shortchanges the importance of religious faith.

“I’m pro-gay rights, but I actually believe Christ is important,” he said.

The mainline numbers are likely to continue to decline, he said.

“Is it sad? Yes. Is it inevitable? Yes. Should they know better? Yes.”

Peter Smith: petersmith@post-gazette.com or 412-263-1416; Twitter @PG_PeterSmith.

First Published: May 23, 2016, 4:10 a.m.