On the recent tour that came through Pittsburgh in November, Mavis Staples was talking to Bob Dylan backstage, reminiscing about the old times.
From many reports, we know it’s not every opener that gets to hang with Dylan.
“I was different on that account,” she says sharply in a phone interview, “because I wasn’t having that. He had to talk to me. I told him at one point, ‘Bob, I’ve been wanting to see you.’ He said [doing Dylan voice], ‘Well, if you had married me, you’d have seen me every day.’ I said, ‘You are so right ... and don’t be so mean!’
“I often wondered what would have gotten on if we’d gotten married,” she adds.
We can all ponder how an interracial union between the voice of a generation and one of the legendary Staples Singers would have changed the world in 1964.
“We were very young,” she says. “We were just fresh out of our teens. I said, ‘I’m too young. I’m not ready to get married. I don’t even know how to cook!’”
Fifty-some years later, the 78-year-old Staples, who did indeed learn to cook, can still belt out a tune with a fury and is still fighting the good fight for freedom and racial harmony. She opens the Three Rivers Arts Festival, touring behind her 16th album, “If All I Was Was Black,” a third project with Jeff Tweedy of Wilco.
“It was like Tweedy knew what I had to say,” she says of the Grammy-winning partnership. “He knew. I was ready to voice my opinion on a lot of stuff. I enjoy so much working with him and it’s so easy. He writes the best songs in the world.
“We did have a little argument,” she notes. “He’d written this great song, ‘If All I Was Was Black,’ and then he was afraid to make it the title of the album. I said, ‘No, Tweedy, this is the title.’ He said, ‘People are going to say, “Who does he think he is, he can write songs like this? He’s not black.” I said, ‘You are black! Look at you, look at your lyrics, you know all about it.’ We talked a while, and his wife came through, and he said, ‘Susie, Mavis says I’m black.’ Susie goes, ‘If Mavis says you’re black, you’re black!’
When he initially brought her that title track, she says her heart started pounding, because it captured just what she wanted to say.
“It was just so poignant. Don’t you want to know me more than that? Don’t you want to know past my color, past what complexion I am? I’ve got a lot to offer. The song tells it.”
Making it all more poignant is the timing of the project.
“It’s just so sad that we still have all this racism in the world, with all we’ve been through. I’m almost 80 years old and I’ve been singing songs to try to bring us together all my life. And we still … I just have to say it, I was so disappointed with Roseanne [Barr] because I was crazy about her. I was telling everyone, ‘Roseanne is back, Roseanne is back!’ And you talk about breaking my heart when I woke up and saw the news. It just crushed me. I said, ‘Oh, Lord, when will we get over this?’
“But you know what? It’s beyond me. For years, I had said I thought we’d never see a black president. And just don’t believe I will live to see us come together. I don’t think it’s going to happen. It’s just too crazy, it’s just too much.”
A second after saying that, though, Ms. Staples, like she always does, finds some glimmer of light.
“The younger generation,” she says, “I was so happy to see these children marching, about guns. Now they need to hop on this racism stuff. We need the young people, we need them.”
Elsewhere on the album, Ms. Staples and Mr. Tweedy reference Michelle Obama’s words, “When they go low, we go high” on “We Go High” and make a plea for unity on “Build a Bridge.” She closes the album singing, “I’d do it all over again” on “All Over Again.”
“And I would do it all over again,” she says, quickly adding, “other than not marrying Bob Dylan. I probably would marry Bobby. He was so cute.”
Maybe it’s not too late?
“Oh yeah,” she says laughing, “I’ve gotten accustomed ... I don’t want to wake up with nobody around!”
Mavis Staples performs at Point State Park, Downtown, at 7:30 p.m. Friday.
Scott Mervis: smervis@post-gazette.com.
First Published: May 31, 2018, 11:00 a.m.